Dr. Will Thalheimer, Consultant, Speaker, Researcher, Work-Learning Research
Dr. Will Thalheimer is a renowned learning scientist and the founder of Work-Learning Research. For more than four decades, he has helped organizations translate learning science into practical workplace training strategies. Known for challenging learning myths and promoting evidence-based practices, Will has authored multiple books and research reports on effective learning design and evaluation. His latest book, “The CEO’s Guide to Training, eLearning and Work,” explores how learning can create real competitive advantage for organizations. Through his workshops, writing and research, Will continues to influence how companies design training, evaluate learning, and build high-performing workforces grounded in science.
Nolan Hout, Senior Vice President, Growth, Infopro Learning
Nolan Hout is the growth leader and host of this podcast. He has over a decade of experience in the Learning & Development (L&D) industry, helping global organizations unlock the potential of their workforce. Nolan is results-driven, investing most of his time in finding ways to identify and improve the performance of learning programs through the lens of return on investment. He is passionate about networking with people in the learning and training community. He is also an avid outdoorsman and fly fisherman, spending most of his free time on rivers across the Pacific Northwest.
In this episode, Nolan sits down with learning scientist Dr. Will to explore how learning and development can become a true competitive advantage for organizations. They discuss evidence-based learning practices, the future of AI in training and why L&D must rethink how it measures impact.
Listen to the episode to find out:
- How Will Thalheimer’s journey from business school to instructional design shaped his career in learning science.
- Why learning and development plays a critical role in both organizational performance and individual career growth.
- How CEOs and senior leaders can empower learning teams to create competitive advantage.
- Why traditional learning metrics and “smile sheets” often fail to measure real learning impact.
- The importance of leveraging learning science principles like retrieval practice and spaced repetition.
- How organizations can embed key capabilities, like company values or AI skills, across multiple learning experiences.
- Why L&D teams must move beyond broadcasting information to designing for remembering and performance.
- How better learning evaluation can improve decision-making and drive continuous improvement.
- What the LTEM (Learning-Transfer Evaluation Model) is and why it offers a more effective way to measure learning outcomes.
If we use learning science and evidence-based practices, we can double learning results and create real competitive advantage for organizations.
Consultant, Speaker, Researcher, Work-Learning Research
Introduction
Nolan: Hello and welcome to the podcast. Today’s podcast is sponsored by EasyGenerator, the e-learning authoring tool that lets anyone in your company create company-specific training at scale. Your sales team knows your product, your legal team knows compliance, your HR team knows onboarding.
With EasyGenerator they can all easily share that knowledge by creating engaging e-learning. Empower your experts to share what they know fast. Learn more at EasyGenerator.com.
Now that we’ve paid the bills, we can get to meet our guest today. Joining me we have Dr. Will Thalheimer, a learning scientist who translates research into practice. He’s the founder of Work Learning Research and is known for debunking learning myths and helping organizations build more effective training.
He’s the author of several books including most recently The CEO’s Guide to Training, E-Learning and Work: Reshaping Learning into a Competitive Advantage.
Will brings a lot of science to learning. Much of what he publishes is based on data. We’re excited to have him join us today. Will, welcome to the podcast.
Dr.Will: Thanks Nolan. It’s great to be here.
Will’s Origin Story in Learning & Development
Nolan: Before we talk about the book, let’s learn a little more about you. You’ve been a beacon in this space for a while, but you didn’t start there. What was your origin story into learning and development?
Dr.Will: That’s a good question. You’re taking me back. I was in business school as an MBA student at Drexel University in Philadelphia. I was taking business courses and they were fine, but they didn’t feed my soul.
So, I looked around the rest of the university and found a four-course sequence on instructional design. I got fascinated and took the sequence. When it was time to graduate, I had been working on simulations for my master’s project.
I was paging through Training Magazine thinking it would be great to combine simulations with my business background. Then I saw it on the page: The Strategic Management Group, world leaders in business simulation. I thought, that’s who I want to work for.
They were located four blocks from my house. I put on the one business suit my dad helped me buy from Brooks Brothers and went down there the next day. I said I want to work for you guys.
It was a small company, and nobody had ever done that before. They said they were busy and asked if I could come back tomorrow. I went back the next day and got a job in instructional design.
We were famous for building simulations. We built an MBA-in-a-box first, then leadership simulations. I became a project manager and had a lot of fun with that. Eventually I decided to go back to school and get a PhD in human learning and cognition. That’s the origin.
Why Will Stayed in the Field
Nolan: What keeps you fascinated in this space?
Dr.Will: I’ll answer on two levels. First, I think we do important work. The L&D field helps people in their jobs, careers, confidence, and identity. That has ripple effects on families and communities. We also help organizations become more competitive.
The other reason is that I love doing the work. I love looking at research, figuring things out, teaching workshops, speaking, and writing books. Building things that are research-based and effective that help people get me up every morning.
Nolan: It’s nice when passion meets your paycheck.
The Origin of “The CEO’s Guide” Book
Nolan: You recently wrote The CEO’s Guide to Training, E-Learning and Work. What drew you to write a CEO-focused book?
Dr.Will: I’ve been in the field for about 40 years. One perennial issue is that L&D professionals feel they don’t have a seat at the table. Senior leaders often don’t understand our work, which is understandable because their focus is operations, finance, and marketing.
But if we could be more empowered, we could create competitive advantage. In the book I write directly to CEOs. Sometimes I tell them there’s research showing training helps the bottom line. Companies that do more training often have better profits.
Other times I tell them the data we give them is bad data. I say poor learning evaluation is the root of all evil in learning and development.
The book has 50 short chapters. The idea is to help CEOs understand what L&D can do while also helping learning professionals learn how to partner with senior leaders and speak the language of business.
Learning as a Competitive Advantage
Nolan: It’s interesting because L&D could become a major competitive advantage for organizations.
Dr.Will: Exactly. I’m a learning science guy, and research shows there are simple things that dramatically improve learning results. For example:
- Retrieval practice
- The spacing effect
- Context alignment
- Feedback
If you implement just these four things you can guarantee a 100% improvement in learning results. That means doubling learning effectiveness. Imagine two teams: one using learning science and one not. The team using science creates a competitive advantage.
Spaced Learning & Organizational Values
Dr.Will: Another example is spacing important concepts over time. If company values are important, don’t just teach them during onboarding. Instead include values-based scenarios across many learning experiences.
That spacing keeps values top of mind and embeds them into real decisions people make. The same idea applies to AI training. Instead of a single AI course, embed small AI projects across multiple courses. Spacing helps people remember and apply knowledge. If your competitors aren’t doing that, you’re creating competitive advantage.
The Biggest Problems in L&D
Nolan: What are some mistakes L&D professionals make?
Dr.Will: The biggest problem is broadcasting information. We try to teach too many things. Here’s a thought experiment: Would you rather teach 100 things and have people remember 10, or teach 50 things and have them remember 20? Teaching fewer things better leads to better outcomes. When we overload learners, we don’t give them:
- Realistic practice
- Spaced repetition
- Reflection time
Another mistake is acting as order-takers. Stakeholders request a course and we build it. Instead, we should ask questions like:
- Is this actually a training problem?
- What management support is needed?
- What resources are required?
Sometimes the solution isn’t training at all.
AI and the Future of Learning
Nolan: How do you see AI shaping learning?
Dr.Will: Nobody is good at predicting the future. AI will help us do things faster, but there are also risks. Right now, people use AI to improve existing processes. Later we might create entirely new learning approaches. But we should experiment and stay cautious.
For example, I’m exploring how AI can improve learning evaluation. One simple use is analyzing open-ended learner survey comments to detect patterns. There are probably many other possibilities we haven’t discovered yet.
Why Learning Evaluation Matters
Nolan: What do CEOs value most from learning leaders?
Dr.Will: Unfortunately, we often give them poor metrics. We report things like:
- Number of learners trained
- Training hours
- Smile sheet ratings
These metrics are not meaningful. Research shows traditional learner satisfaction surveys are almost completely uncorrelated with learning results. Better evaluation provides feedback loops so we can continuously improve learning programs.
The LTEM Model
Dr.Will: I developed the Learning Transfer Evaluation Model (LTEM). It’s an eight-tier model that shows which evaluation methods are meaningful. For example, some common measures are not sufficient:
- Attendance
- Completion rates
- Learner Activity
These don’t prove learning happened. Better measures include:
- Knowledge that supports decisions
- Decision-making ability
- Task performance
These provide stronger evidence that learning improves workplace performance.
Why Many Evaluation Models Fail
Nolan: Do problems come from models themselves or how they’re applied?
Dr.Will: If a model is repeatedly misapplied, the model may be part of the problem. Models influence how people think. Good models should push us toward good thinking and good practice. Traditional models often lead people to rely on simple knowledge checks rather than evaluating real performance. LTEM tries to nudge people toward better evaluation practices.
Conclusion
Nolan: Thank you so much for joining the podcast. It was a great conversation. Everyone should check out The CEO’s Guide to Training, E-Learning and Work and investigate the LTEM model. Will, thanks again for joining us.
Dr.Will: Thanks Nolan. This was fun.
Nolan: Thanks.
