The sales landscape in the pharmaceutical industry has been evolving rapidly, with many companies moving towards virtual sales teams. This shift has propelled a significant focus on learning and development (L&D) to ensure sales representatives have the necessary skills to engage with customers in a virtual setting. L&D programs in the industry are now emphasizing virtual training, instructional design, and facilitation to engage remote audiences effectively. The right approach to L&D is critical to the success of this transition, with a focus on building the skill sets of sales representatives and using virtual polling and metrics to track progress.
Jim Kaveney, Vice President of Learning & Performance Strategy at EVERSANA, in conversation with Nolan Hout, Senior Vice President at Infopro Learning, discussed a wide range of topics related to L&D in sales and pharmaceuticals. They discussed the digital aspect of engagement and how numerous pharma companies are transitioning to having virtual sales reps in addition to on-the-ground salespeople.
Kaveney emphasized on the importance of having the right instructional design and skilled facilitators to manage both virtual and in-person sales environments effectively. They also discussed strategies for engaging remote audiences and tracking metrics to build skillsets. The conversation touched on many other important aspects of L&D in sales and pharmaceuticals, making for a valuable and informative discussion.
Listen to the podcast to learn more:
Question:
What factors have driven this change in the pharma industry over the past few years?
Expert profile:
Jim Kaveney
Jim Kaveney is the Vice President of Learning and Performance Strategy at EVERSANA, where he oversees training and development. He brings over 20 years of expertise in pharmaceuticals, biotechnology, and healthcare to his leadership of the training and development team. He joined EVERSANA from Alkemy Partners, a rapidly expanding agency specializing in learning and development within the life sciences industry, where he served as both the founder and president. Jim holds a master’s degree in organizational leadership from Mercyhurst University and a bachelor’s degree in biology and biology education.
Nolan Hout
Nolan Hout is the Senior Vice President at Infopro Learning. He has over a decade of experience in the L&D industry, helping global organizations unlock the potential of their workforce. Nolan is results-driven, investing most of his time in finding ways to identify and improve the performance of learning programs through the lens of return on investment. He is passionate about networking with people in the learning and training community. He is also an avid outdoorsman and fly fisherman, spending most of his free time on rivers across the Pacific Northwest.
An excerpt of the discussion follows:
Nolan:
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Learning and Development Podcast sponsored by Infopro Learning.
I am Nolan Hout, your host for today, and we have an engaging podcast in store for you. Our guest for today’s episode is Jim Kaveney, Vice President of Learning and Performance Strategy at EVERSANA.
Jim has a great background in L&D, including when he established his own L&D consulting business that became one of the swiftest expanding companies in the United States. For those in a similar situation and have contemplated starting your practice, it’s a conversation you won’t want to miss. However, there are a few other interesting topics we’ll be discussing.
Along with Jim’s story, we’ll delve into the significant challenges and innovative L&D solutions we’ve encountered in the last two to three years. While many of our use cases will be centered around the pharmaceutical industry, we’ll also explore their applicability to other industries. So, buckle up and get ready for an engaging show.
Hello Jim. Welcome to the podcast.
Can you elaborate on your career beginnings? Did you start in the field of learning or training? What influenced your decision to pursue this career path?
Jim:
Certainly. Thank you for providing me with the opportunity to answer your question. My interest in learning and development began during my college days when I aspired to become a doctor. I was entirely committed to that field, but the long duration required to achieve my goal made me reconsider. I began exploring alternative options but was certain I enjoyed simplifying complex concepts so that anyone could understand them, whether it was about the human body or anything else. I found my talent in breaking down complicated ideas into core fundamentals.
After earning my degree in biology, I entered the professional world. I pondered how I could apply my desire to describe and define what was happening in the scientific field and community without becoming a physician’s assistant or a doctor. I considered teaching, but when I eventually entered the pharmaceutical industry, I realized that I had to sell first before teaching. Therefore, the first step was to demonstrate my knowledge of selling.
Knowing how to sell a product is a prerequisite to teaching others how to sell that product effectively. Therefore, I entered the pharmaceutical industry and developed a liking for the sales environment, which was not a natural fit for me due to my shyness. However, I overcame that obstacle and discovered a passion for communicating effectively.
I have a degree in biology education because I enjoy teaching, especially children. Nevertheless, I discovered that I enjoy teaching adults even more and embraced all the theories and principles associated with adult learning. My experience in the pharmaceutical industry allowed me to become a national sales training manager for various pharmaceutical companies, and my passion for this profession kept growing.
Initially, I needed to do something more innovative. I began teaching people in a way that was the most effective for them to learn. Industry leaders with over 25 years of experience encouraged me to start my own business, as they had never seen anything like it before. Despite being relatively new to the industry then, I decided to start my own training company called Alkemy Partners in 2012 after facing some setbacks, like my boss losing his job.
We quickly built a reputation as one of the fastest-growing learning and development companies in the United States. Eventually, one of our clients, EVERSANA, was so impressed with the work that they acquired us and put me in charge of their global operations. This is the shortened version of the story, but it took a lot of hard work, energy, and effort, as well as a great team, to achieve our goals.
Nolan:
You were inadvertently innovative without necessarily setting out to be. What factors contributed to your ability to innovate, such as your upbringing, early teachers, or friends? Can you reflect on how you developed this power of innovation?
Jim:
My mother worked as a school teacher, and I had the opportunity to observe her occasionally, such as when she substituted for my class. She was a strict disciplinarian, especially with me, and I learned a lot from her. Additionally, I have always been naturally curious and eager to explore new ways of doing things.
After being exposed to various teachings in the industry, I often thought that while what I had learned was good, I could have approached it differently to achieve better results. So, as I advanced in my career, I refused to become complacent and stuck in my ways. I wanted to rely on something other than a lesson plan I executed repeatedly. Instead, I aimed to improve with each attempt. I developed an innovative program unlike anything else through this continuous improvement mindset.
Nolan:
It is fascinating that many people nowadays discuss their career transitions, especially at this juncture. There’s much discourse on lateral, upward, downward, and sideward moves. It’s more complex than it once was.
Can you elaborate on your shift from solely focused on sales training to working across the full spectrum? Did it occur naturally, or was it a deliberate effort to broaden your scope?
Jim:
Initially, my focus was on sales training, which encompassed coaching, leadership, and other areas that support a successful salesperson. However, it’s not just about the individual salesperson but also the broader context and the various people that can impact their success. This led me to expand my scope to explore different coaching aspects.
When we started our business, we specifically focused on oncology. This was a unique approach, as we were the only company solely focused on oncology training. Naturally, this led to a range of related areas, such as coaching, market access, and the business of pharmaceuticals.
However, I realized that I needed to be more skilled in certain areas, such as addressing behavioral modifications of individuals. So, we partnered with other experts to provide additional services and ensure that we offered the best possible support to our clients. Ultimately, I understand my strengths and weaknesses and am willing to collaborate with others to achieve the best results.
Nolan:
On a completely different note, or perhaps a tangent to what was previously discussed, when you mentioned seeking out the right people for help, many individuals are currently facing a scarcity of resources. Also, numerous people are in a similar position, whether they require talent or support.
Where have you found the best solutions when seeking assistance? What sources have you found to be the most effective for you?
Jim:
In our case, we rely on traditional methods like building a share of voice and connecting with trusted individuals in the industry. Interestingly, my most trusted industry connections are my competitors since we have friendly competition, and I know they have high standards. I usually contact them if I need a resource or assistance first. If they’re too busy, they might refer me to someone they know, and it usually trickles down from there.
Networking is crucial, and having a strong network is vital for success. As the saying goes, “show me your friends, and I’ll show you who you are.” Competent people usually surround successful businesses, and I tap into those networks to find the right resources or individuals. This approach has worked for me over the years.
Nolan:
We’re discussing challenges, particularly in the L&D and pharma industry, and I understand that this is a key topic we wanted to cover today. The industry’s landscape has undergone significant changes, and the pace of these changes has accelerated beyond what many of us were prepared for. This proximity to change has created an interesting situation.
What factors have driven this change in the pharma industry over the past few years?
Jim:
A significant factor is COVID, which drastically changed the pre-COVID scenario for the pharmaceutical industry. Before the pandemic, sales representatives had difficulty accessing healthcare providers due to their busy schedules. Even if they managed to gain access, the time allotted for the interaction was minimal, usually around a minute and a half to two minutes, and sometimes even less. The challenge was to deliver a concise and impactful message that would capture the provider’s attention amidst a full schedule of seeing 40 patients daily.
The COVID outbreak brought the industry to a halt, except for vaccine manufacturers and essential drug production. Field personnel, numbering around 85,000 to 100,000 individuals, were forced to work from home and shift their interactions to virtual engagements. Zoom became an extremely popular platform for these virtual meetings.
As virtual engagements took over during the pandemic, physicians’ access was completely shut down as they were unwilling to see anyone. However, we are now seeing access opening up again. The converse of the pre-COVID situation is that physicians now want longer conversations despite the access issues still present. A few years ago, we focused on training sales representatives to have quick, impactful conversations with physicians. Still, our clients request help with teaching reps to have thoughtful and considerate lengthy conversations tailored to the respective disease state they are discussing.
The industry has undergone a complete 180-degree shift, resulting in changes to how we develop the training components.
Other questions asked during the podcast were:
- What interests people on the sales side? Do they prefer face-to-face meetings for a personal touch after being bombarded digitally? Has the physical channel become a way to learn more about a role or job? How has the perspective shifted from quick interactions to spending quality time with clients?
- How has the need for both virtual and in-person components in programs affected your instructional design philosophy?
- In your experience running hybrid programs, what strategies or tricks have you used to engage with remote workers who can’t attend in person? What do you think are the most engaging moments in a remote setting?
- Have you noticed any changes in investment toward in-person training programs compared to the past? Is there a greater emphasis on cost savings by transitioning to virtual programs, or are you seeing a push towards in-person training now that it’s possible?
- What other changes, besides last-minute adjustments and shifts in the sales environment, have you observed in the industry? Are there any significant transformations that you anticipate in the next year or so?
- How does the Kirkpatrick model, which includes four levels ranging from the learner’s happiness to the business’s success, play a role in the idea of a “ready-to-learn mindset”? Can you provide an example of how this model can be applied in the sales industry?
- Can you share some advice or words of wisdom for others in the pharma industry based on your experience? What do you see happening in the industry, and what would you like to see in the future?